Reference Points

Re: Reference Points

Postby Immortalis Animus » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:01 am

Rasa wrote:Hi, this question is for Mikal and then anyone can join in after.

Mikal,

I was reading through some of The Darker Teachings last night and I came across the section "Death is a Position of the Assemblage Point." In it you state that, "It could be observed in most ordinary humans that death occurs when the assemblage point moves to a position that is without reference points within the world of matter and men. There is the perception of nothing, yet that very nothing is a perception, which implies there is something doing the perceiving."

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I got the impression that "normal" humans who cross the threshold of death essentially "obliviate," i.e., there is nothing left even to "perceive nothing." But the statement above would seem to contradict that. Would that "obliviation" be what you describe further on in the same section as the person's awareness being "reabsorbed into the fabric of the multiverse as their component parts"? Does this process of being torn asunder (poetic license) take "time" or is it instant for the deathee? Just curious, you see. ;)


This is one of those conundrums rooted solidly in duality - wherein 2 things exist simultaneously and in seeming contradiction to one another, yet neither threatens the sovereignty of the other. In other words - it's both. And it's neither. When an ordinary human "dies," the assemblage point shifts to such an estreme position on the "left" side that there are no reference points OTHER than oblivion itself. But since oblivion is something that can be described and experienced, it qualifies (in my book anyway) as a valid position of the assemblage point. HOWEVER... the k ey word in this discussion should perhaps be "cohesion." It might be observed that those who transcend and become immortal maintain their individuated cohesion even when the AP shifts drastically to a point of no-reference. At that point, the reference point becomes the self and - more accurately - the Other. In an instant (no time at all), the cohesive awareness shifts from organic to inorganic, and a new series of reference points are created. This would naturally include those previously known in "the world of matter and men," but would also include what might be termed more "advanced" reference po8ints generally only available to the inorganics, the allies and the immortals.

The trick is learning to adapt to those new reference points and weave them into one's pre-existing awareness (what one brings over from the world of matter & men) without allowing the new reference points to become instruments of chaos and destruction. IOW - the trick is not to go mad when transitioning from one set of references to the next. This is why I say seekers must build a new foundation during the process of being alive, so that when they do transition (whether through transdcendence or transmogrification) the experience is like stepping across a bottomless chasm... but the step is only a foot across rather than a hungry abyss. If the new reference points are perceived only as frightening or incomprehensible, madness is a strong possibility.

Rasa wrote:That said, what, then, does a person perceive once they've moved the assemblage point to an immortal "position"? Are the immortal's "reference points" still "within the world of matter and men" yet just able to see it all from the "outside" instead of being trapped within those reference points?


An immortal's reference points would include whatever s/he had gained from the world of matter & men, plus what amounts to a "new" preceptor that becomes active once one passes through (or around) the state known as death. It's why many who have had NDEs become "psychic" in the aftermath of their experience - essentially they may bring back with them a minuscule bit of the immortal's perception. How to describe that perception? Not really possible, anymore than trying to describe an orgasm to an oil spill. :shock: In certain literature, vampires might have "gifts" which they didn't have as mortals. Some can read thoughts. Others can cause physical pain. Others may absorb knowledge directly from the fabric of the universe. Still others might be able to fly or discorporate altogether. All of these things (and so many more that cannot even be captured with words) are just expanded positions of the assemblage point.

Rasa wrote: If not, what are those "reference points"? Are they like "anchors" for perception? How, too, does the immortal actually perceive? Hoomans perceive with the 5 senses and sometimes things like intuition if they allow themselves to do so. The immortal is not necessarily tied to a physical body, correct? Does he or she have to project a physical body to, say, "smell" a rose? <--I feel intuitively that that is not necessary, that the immortal can just "smell" essentially with his or her whole being (elbow, hahah! nose on an elbow, ok it's early).


Immortals perceive directly. Hard to translate to language, but an immortal would BECOME the essence of the rose and therefore would know it intimately - from the inside out, so to speak. By the same token, most immortals who have "adjusted" to the newly acquired perceptions, would tend to perceive from a position outside of time. For example, if a book were lying in front of an immortal, but s/he hadn't yet read it, she could read it "instantaneously" (to ordinary perceptions) by essentially projecting awareness into a future-point in time (a new reference point), wherein she HAD read the book. Then, when returning to whatever point in time she inhabited where the book was just lying on the table, she would have total knowledge of it (having read it in the future).

Immortals recognize the first and most important "agreement" of the new perception - that time is indeed the first fundamental lie. Once free of time - truly free and not just intellectually - the immortal is also freed to navigate instantaneously between Then and Now, Past and Present, Here and There. So... this brings up the 4 agreements of the immortal condition.

1. Time is the first fundamental lie.
2. My foundation is malleable rock. It is built on the knowledge that it exists (even when I cannot *see* it directly), and therefore it is built on the faith (in myself) that I am forever building & extending it from one non-moment to the infinite next.
3. Evolution is an ongoing process. It does not stop when I "die" or when I am re-born as an immortal. Each ending is the new beginning.
4. Life is a position of the assemblage point, counterpoint to Death. Therein lies the secret to living forever.

Rasa wrote:I'm not sure if my questions are adequately conveying what I'm trying to get across, as usual! LOL! Maybe you can read my mind and intuit the answers I need. ROFL!Sarcasm aside, I would love to know the answers if you have them.


I have attempted to do just that - read post, read mind, intuit answers. :twisted: I hope these ramblings bring you some clarity.

Darkly everafter,
M
You have to be immortal before you can know how to become immortal.

To understand more about attaining the immortal condition, order my books...
Teachings of the Immortals and The Darker Teachings
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Re: Reference Points

Postby Rasa » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:26 pm

Duuuude. Vulcan mind-meld! 8-) Thank you! That was one of the most awesome answers. I'm gonna have to read that again, and again, and again so that I CAN explain an orgasm to an oil spill.

But seriously, thank you again. I have a feeling that just having read this once I am one step closer. It's a lot of info but it does help me wrap my brains around some things. You definitely confirmed what I thought about how immortals perceive things. I figured it would be a "total" kind of thing rather than through just a particular projected sensory organ or what have you.

Soooo, having a thought here, connecting the dots. Destroying the programs/beliefs one holds equals destroying the "reference points" that keep one trapped, kind of like a bug trapped in a spider's web being able to cut the strands of the web and free itself. It suddenly becomes "free-floating" and unless it has or develops wings to fly it will just crash into whatever void awaits it once it is free? Lousy metaphor but I'm trying to put it all in terms the mush between my ears can comprehend at this point! LOL! The free bug, once able to fly away has only itself as reference, too, unless it can catch sight of a more desirable place to land, i.e., a new "reference point." But from there it can launch itself to other "reference points" or places to land. Damn, I just realized I'm comparing a newly birthed immortal to a bug. Not so with the flattery. Sorry! Anyway, super answers. I will read them more, contemplate. May have more questions stemming from TDT, too.
"The world is full of magic things, patiently waiting for our senses to grow sharper."
--W. B. Yeats
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Re: Reference Points

Postby Immortalis Animus » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:39 am

Rasa wrote:Duuuude. Vulcan mind-meld! 8-) Thank you! That was one of the most awesome answers. I'm gonna have to read that again, and again, and again so that I CAN explain an orgasm to an oil spill.

But seriously, thank you again. I have a feeling that just having read this once I am one step closer. It's a lot of info but it does help me wrap my brains around some things. You definitely confirmed what I thought about how immortals perceive things. I figured it would be a "total" kind of thing rather than through just a particular projected sensory organ or what have you.

Soooo, having a thought here, connecting the dots. Destroying the programs/beliefs one holds equals destroying the "reference points" that keep one trapped, kind of like a bug trapped in a spider's web being able to cut the strands of the web and free itself. It suddenly becomes "free-floating" and unless it has or develops wings to fly it will just crash into whatever void awaits it once it is free? Lousy metaphor but I'm trying to put it all in terms the mush between my ears can comprehend at this point! LOL! The free bug, once able to fly away has only itself as reference, too, unless it can catch sight of a more desirable place to land, i.e., a new "reference point." But from there it can launch itself to other "reference points" or places to land. Damn, I just realized I'm comparing a newly birthed immortal to a bug. Not so with the flattery. Sorry! Anyway, super answers. I will read them more, contemplate. May have more questions stemming from TDT, too.


You had recently asked (jokingly) when the next book is coming out. I can only say... when I receive more questions such as the one that spurred this conversation is when the next book will come forth. Most of "the darker teachings" come to light when someone asks the right question. While I might Know the answers personally and intuitively, it is often only when the question is posed in a direct manner that the Knowledge has a reason to become visible. So... thank you for the question. :twisted:
You have to be immortal before you can know how to become immortal.

To understand more about attaining the immortal condition, order my books...
Teachings of the Immortals and The Darker Teachings
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Re: Reference Points

Postby espiritus » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:21 pm

This is one of those topics I've now read several times and felt it absolutely needed to be copied over into the Archive. Can't help but hope we keep the hard questions coming for Mikal, since I for one would love to see even MORE "darker teachings".
By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it.
The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired. (Nikos Kazantzakis)
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